This was written perfectly!!! I used to be so sucked into the fantasy. The moment I arrived to PTDLA, it all clicked that I’m not special and Namjoon isn’t in love with me 😂. I laugh thinking about the mindset I had for years prior! It’s just scary how easy is it to blur the line between entertainment/fantasy and what you feel is real life.
This is so good!!!! I appreciate the reality check especially when it includes us cutting ourselves and each other some slack. It's wild to see fans tell Jennie to stay away from Tae. Like any of us truly have a chance with him?? And like Tae, who they are idolizing and think is perfect, is all of a sudden incapable of choosing who to date?? Get it Jennie! 💜🖤💖 Thank you for writing this Shenee
There' s a lot here, but I think it's important to remember that k-pop is a commodity that is leveraging late stage capitalism. For capitalism to succeed, it needs systems of oppression. There is ZERO incentive for BTS/HYBE to change any of this in any way, and every time I see them lean into it, I am always aware of it.
One of the things that ties into your tiktok video is that things like the patriarchy don't just harm cis women. They harm everyone, including men. You see this, especially, with BTS and their ongoing openness and obsession with diet culture and making comments *all the time* that verge on body dysmorphia.
I was just telling a friend that if I ever leave BTS, it will be because of more bad music or the constant fat shaming of all things.
But I also still think the music matters. I stan a lot of other groups, and occasionally BTS will come up on the playlist after a long absence and every single time I'm reminded that this is all interesting to talk about, but if we don't see anything better than Yet to Come come from the group, I'm going to end up full nostalgia army. (There is some research emerging trying to understand this from a structural perspective).
You seriously should write a book or something because your insight is so refreshing and real. Sometimes I get sucked into the fantasy and really think I have a chance with an idol but in reality I don’t. I love the strip club analogy. I had that realization after I left Lolla because we really are in a delusional mindset for an amount of time but when that time is up and reality hits it’s like “what now?” I always imagine how my life would be like if I never got into kpop. Would I have the same preferences, think the same way about ideal types, etc. It’s all so interesting
I like these spicy reads!! I have a background in psychology so I enjoy reading your insights and you always bring up such great points. I’m a romance book girly and have been for 15+ years so I’ve had practice being in the fantasy so I find it’s easier to jump in and out of K-pop. The Romance book industry is having some interesting drama that is similar to some of the K-pop drama. It got more popular (booktok) during the pandemic but now people don’t know how to navigate the fantasy of it all and it’s becoming a little toxic just like K-pop fandoms can be. This is all very interesting!! I’d like to talk to a interpersonal psychologist and sociologist about all this.
The way you wrote about the hate girl groups get because they represent what the guys would actually want and challenges the fantasies really hit home in a sense. I always seem to not like or follow female artists the way I follow male ones (in any genre) and it boils down to my insecurities and how I assume that those females represent what men want and what I will never be or achieve. It didn’t even really occur to me that that was why and what I was doing until I read this. I’m not sure how to feel now. 😅
Another well written piece! I think the stripper reference is spot on. The way there can be an idol for any niche you want is damn accurate. It got me thinking that the takeoff of Twitter and Vlive and other online communities may have contributed to the boyfriend/best friend experience becoming the central selling point in Kpop as now the idols could interact real time with fans. As an international Kpop fan who only had YouTube and LiveJournal in the late 2000s to early 2010s and 480p recorded videos, there wasn’t those livestreams or community experiences so I didn’t feel the boyfriend/best friend experience as much or maybe I was in denial lols. In my eyes, I never had the access that Korean fans had so I always felt like I was just one in a sea of many and never put myself in the running to get with my favs. The emergence of Kpop as mainstream and companies realizing they can sell albums with photocards may have convinced these businesses to sell experiences rather than invest in music.
i love this so much. i especially love the point where you dig into how this fantasy industry shows up in real life when fans engage in fetishization and toxic, abusive language used towards other celebrities and people online. i would read a million more pieces on those topics alone from you tbh. similarly i think fandom can be a safe, healing place to explore sexuality and intimacy for a lot of people! but i love that there is becoming more space to discuss the dangers in that without falling into the typical misogynistic tropes around “fan girls”. or at least space here in this substack lol
PITCH THIS TO PUBLICATIONS ITS GOLD I’M KOOKIE’S TYPE NO ONE @ ME!!!!!
This was written perfectly!!! I used to be so sucked into the fantasy. The moment I arrived to PTDLA, it all clicked that I’m not special and Namjoon isn’t in love with me 😂. I laugh thinking about the mindset I had for years prior! It’s just scary how easy is it to blur the line between entertainment/fantasy and what you feel is real life.
This is so good!!!! I appreciate the reality check especially when it includes us cutting ourselves and each other some slack. It's wild to see fans tell Jennie to stay away from Tae. Like any of us truly have a chance with him?? And like Tae, who they are idolizing and think is perfect, is all of a sudden incapable of choosing who to date?? Get it Jennie! 💜🖤💖 Thank you for writing this Shenee
There' s a lot here, but I think it's important to remember that k-pop is a commodity that is leveraging late stage capitalism. For capitalism to succeed, it needs systems of oppression. There is ZERO incentive for BTS/HYBE to change any of this in any way, and every time I see them lean into it, I am always aware of it.
One of the things that ties into your tiktok video is that things like the patriarchy don't just harm cis women. They harm everyone, including men. You see this, especially, with BTS and their ongoing openness and obsession with diet culture and making comments *all the time* that verge on body dysmorphia.
I was just telling a friend that if I ever leave BTS, it will be because of more bad music or the constant fat shaming of all things.
But I also still think the music matters. I stan a lot of other groups, and occasionally BTS will come up on the playlist after a long absence and every single time I'm reminded that this is all interesting to talk about, but if we don't see anything better than Yet to Come come from the group, I'm going to end up full nostalgia army. (There is some research emerging trying to understand this from a structural perspective).
You seriously should write a book or something because your insight is so refreshing and real. Sometimes I get sucked into the fantasy and really think I have a chance with an idol but in reality I don’t. I love the strip club analogy. I had that realization after I left Lolla because we really are in a delusional mindset for an amount of time but when that time is up and reality hits it’s like “what now?” I always imagine how my life would be like if I never got into kpop. Would I have the same preferences, think the same way about ideal types, etc. It’s all so interesting
I like these spicy reads!! I have a background in psychology so I enjoy reading your insights and you always bring up such great points. I’m a romance book girly and have been for 15+ years so I’ve had practice being in the fantasy so I find it’s easier to jump in and out of K-pop. The Romance book industry is having some interesting drama that is similar to some of the K-pop drama. It got more popular (booktok) during the pandemic but now people don’t know how to navigate the fantasy of it all and it’s becoming a little toxic just like K-pop fandoms can be. This is all very interesting!! I’d like to talk to a interpersonal psychologist and sociologist about all this.
The way you wrote about the hate girl groups get because they represent what the guys would actually want and challenges the fantasies really hit home in a sense. I always seem to not like or follow female artists the way I follow male ones (in any genre) and it boils down to my insecurities and how I assume that those females represent what men want and what I will never be or achieve. It didn’t even really occur to me that that was why and what I was doing until I read this. I’m not sure how to feel now. 😅
Another well written piece! I think the stripper reference is spot on. The way there can be an idol for any niche you want is damn accurate. It got me thinking that the takeoff of Twitter and Vlive and other online communities may have contributed to the boyfriend/best friend experience becoming the central selling point in Kpop as now the idols could interact real time with fans. As an international Kpop fan who only had YouTube and LiveJournal in the late 2000s to early 2010s and 480p recorded videos, there wasn’t those livestreams or community experiences so I didn’t feel the boyfriend/best friend experience as much or maybe I was in denial lols. In my eyes, I never had the access that Korean fans had so I always felt like I was just one in a sea of many and never put myself in the running to get with my favs. The emergence of Kpop as mainstream and companies realizing they can sell albums with photocards may have convinced these businesses to sell experiences rather than invest in music.
i love this so much. i especially love the point where you dig into how this fantasy industry shows up in real life when fans engage in fetishization and toxic, abusive language used towards other celebrities and people online. i would read a million more pieces on those topics alone from you tbh. similarly i think fandom can be a safe, healing place to explore sexuality and intimacy for a lot of people! but i love that there is becoming more space to discuss the dangers in that without falling into the typical misogynistic tropes around “fan girls”. or at least space here in this substack lol
Fully and utterly obsessed with this entire piece!!
Please read this whole thing at my funeral 😂